Boxing Discussion?

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Boxing Discussion?

Post by Plutonium on Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:32 pm

With the new influx of players in the last few days/week or so, I'm starting to notice an unpleasant trend: boxing is getting to be a bit much. I was skeptical about it being a problem before because even though people could box, very few people did, and even then, it was generally for buffing purposes and that's about it. However, the new influx of people, for some reason, have decided that boxing is the way to go, and a lot of them do not group with others. At least before, when boxing was not as common and wasn't used to solo the entirety of the game, people were still grouping. A lot of Fires of Heaven members were grouping all the time to down content. There were even multi-person groups in Time, which is frickin' awesome. However, now, in the course of 2-3 days, I am seeing people I have NEVER seen, let alone seen group, in elemental planes, downing it like it is nothing, and this disturbs me a little. This brings up another problem: spawn timers are too damn short. Timers being this short are not encouraging people to group (even if they are boxing), and a lot of the time (myself included), not bothering to call out flags for others to get. A week or two ago, it was a rarity to see anyone in Elemental. VT and VP were hotspots. However, the new influx of players is getting Ele in a day. This is silly, in my opinion. I really think there needs to be a discussion on boxing or limiting IPs, as well as timers. When I say timers, I am talking more about VP and PoP timers. Everything else seems fine, especially for gearing up. My proposition is limiting it to two. This allows some boxing (buff bots, etc) but not enough to just demolish content. Unless you are a warrior/cleric, duoing Quarm (VZ/Inny) and most of Time is really hard/nearly impossible until you are overwhelmingly geared, and even then it is a push. This is just my two cents on the matter. I would like to hear others thoughts on both of these issues (boxing and timers).

And if you are one of the people (like I once was) who is going to freak out and tell me that boxing isn't ruining this server, keep in mind that you can do a WHOLE lot with just two characters (and it is by no means trivial).

-Pluto

P.s. do not mistake this for bitching that I can't do stuff or anything like that, if you know me, you know I get shit done on my own if it comes to it, but I'm at a point where I would rather not.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by blurman2000 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:57 am

I'm not in the Elemental Planes or PoTime yet. So I hope you don't mind if I ask anything out of ignorance.

Maybe I don't really understand how boxing too many would be bad.
If the boxers gear themselves so fast, they'll hit a ceiling so fast and then there's nothing else they can do, and they would either leave or help others.
So with the short respawn timers, others would still be able to get the mobs.

*Side question: What's the respawn time anyway? I'm only in PoValor and I think Aerin`Dar's respawn is around an hour. I think that timing is perfect.*

Once again, do forgive my reasoning. My plan of enjoying the game is to gear everything on my own without getting any grouping since it's a solo server. However, if there's nothing up because of the long spawn times, there's not much to do and people would leave the server?


Another side question:
Is PoTime instanced? Or its a free for all where whoever reaches first gets the bosses?

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Plutonium on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:51 am

Like I said, I want this to be a discussion, so I welcome your opinions/thoughts, regardless!

The timer seems variable, with a few broken exceptions, but everything seems to be an hour or two max. PoT is instanced, but I don't really understand what the point of playing entirely by yourself is, and whatever that point is, I suspect (I could be wrong), you are in the minority of enjoying gearing up entirely on your own. I'm not saying long spawn times, but these 1-2 hours spawns times are ridiculous. My reasoning was already seemingly clear, assuming you agree with my stance. Short respawn timers are bad because it discourages grouping, which I think is bad. Hitting a ceiling is bad for server health, in my opinion, and boxing, as you've agreed on, causing a very fast ceiling. No longevity from players does nothing for a community.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Pantyhose on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:21 am

You're complaining because people are solo'ing on a solo server? Not sure I'm really not understanding your logic...please explain. I box not because I HAVE to, but because I enjoy it. Take away the boxing, I leave and find another server...I made sure to check the rules before I joined if it was allowed. They've made a very playable/enjoyable server, for some that isn't logging into a game to sit and stare at a wall waiting for something to appear there. =)

As far as my social end, I have met several like-minded individuals and even invited to my group others who aren't as like minded. Met a lot of good people on the server. =)

As far as your social end...I've met you. All you wanted to do is dual during a GM event in the arena, so haven't felt a need to get to know you any further. =(

Love the server as is...ok not as is...poeartha trial still broken, but the idealism of as it is with everything working. Get the content up to Time working and you'll not see the boxers you seem to abhor so much. Your increased timers idea don't make sense either...you want to increase the time it takes for the people you dislike so much to get out of the zone you want to be in? Secondly in response to your increased timers...how is that inspiring grouping...loot rarer equals less likely to share. My reasoning is response to yours...why group when you can do it yourself and have all the loot. Lower timers equates to heck yeah...company and plenty of loot to go around, lets hang out and kill stuff.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Plutonium on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:12 am

First off: yuck at you putting words in my mouth, on several occasions, and yuck that you are prone to such quick assumptions.

That being said: I don't think the "solo" in "solo server" means "box as many as you can until you can solo everything." I am really quite sure it doesn't. If it did, there wouldn't be the protocols in place to help people who choose to play one character. My point is, if people weren't all boxing their little armies, people wouldn't be logging into the game, as you put it, "to sit and stare at a wall." If less people were steamrolling shit by themselves, people would be more inclined to group, and less "sitting and waiting" would occur.

I have no idea why on earth you decided to make any sort of comment about my "social end", but I'll leave that at that.

Lower timers does not equate to heck yeah, company and plenty of loot to go around, it equates to "hey, this will be up again in an hour, so need to invite anyone. they can solo it anyways." Before the new influx of boxers, people were grouping a lot more to do things, especially progression. What the hell is the point of having all the loot if you have no friends to appreciate it with?

I am not the only one who feels this way, which is why I decided to bring up the subject. Clearly the new boxers like the way things are, because otherwise, they wouldn't be boxing.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Vampriss on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:48 am

My personal perspective:

I box up to 5 characters...Four of which sit at the zone line while I solo through generally (this is mainly due to my laziness AND cheapness).

I box because I like having the variety to choose from. Some days I wanna play my necro. Others, my bard. And when I'm feeling particularly nostalgic: My chanter. Boxing keeps them all geared/flagged so that I can.

Part of the draw to this server for me is being able to level up and AA up classes I love and some I've never really played.

As to the social aspects: No one had yet to complain about the constant MGB Virtue/Vallon/Focus thatt my team does throughout the day. I always make room for ppl when AAing or cleaning ToV/VP. I also always call out flags and loot...And usually wait for folks who need flags when able.

Now...Could the server be more social? Sure!! Would more MGB/Loot/Flag calls in /ooc be great? Sure!! But these are issues on most Emu servers and it's very hard to mandate people into being more social.

Ultimately I do not see boxing as an issue. As for timers, I'd say let the people who are NOT elemental/time flagged vote on timers. Of course those that already are flagged will want to keep the population/competition in those zones to a minimum. (I'm NOT saying that's what you are suggesting...Simply making a statement that seems to line up further with the non social theme). Smile

All this being said: I like the server AND the people! I'm having fun...I'm all for more fun...And I want to help everyone have as much fun as possible!!

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by blurman2000 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:47 am

Hey Woses,

Could you enlighten us some on what's your direction of the server?

It can maybe clear up some assumptions and opinions that we have for this server.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Pantyhose on Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:55 pm

You took the time to bring it up, therefore it can only be ASSumed you have a problem with that particular play-style. You say you have no problem and yet you made the effort to post about it, that's contradictory.

Your ASSumption begot ASSumptions. As far as I'm concerned your attacking a whole play-style, while trying to maintain deniability, so expect the other side to retort...and I only speak for myself and not what I ASSume the whole server feels and I will fight tooth and nail to keep my way of playing.

The whole server is one great big group.../ooc Party!! =)
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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Cylex on Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:58 pm

I appreciate that the boxers in most cases are calling out loot drops, and sometimes flags. I understand that it's fun to play your way, just as non boxers enjoy their single account play. The only issue I have is when I see a 4 or 5 man box team camp a zone ALL day. Sure it's nice to call out drops you don't want or need, but some people would like to experience the content for themselves, and that is impossible when it's perma-camped by a bot army.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Pantyhose on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:22 pm

I camped PoFire a whole day...seen no one all day. Next day, camped it...someone walked in the zone and I gave the zone to them and even told them when the bosses would repop...or in one case I zoned in to empty zone killed the first boss, they walked in I gave it up =)

Can't speak for everyone, but that how I rolled(hehe)
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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Vampriss on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:59 pm

There must be one particular douchebag box team ppl are talking about...And I obviously haven't met them!! My poor tunes are in ToV gear and just barely have made it to PoFire...

I'm constantly giving way to others to get spawns or helping clear. The great attitude of the server is what has kept me here!!

Again...I'm logged on a lot, but not playing most the time...So I've missed this notorious spawn hogging, gear hoarding, pushy, mean, baby eating boxer everyone is talking about. Someone please send me a tell in game and notify me of who this person is so I will know to watch out for them!!

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Pantyhose on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:01 pm

Vamp you are so right...I'm looking at this wrong. Only takes a single person to ruin multiple peoples day. Thanks for your viewpoint. =)
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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Vampriss on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:16 pm

I all seriousness...I want this to be a great server. I think it has fabulous potential. I can honestly say that if boxxing is an issue, I'm fine with it being limited. I'll keep playing on the server regardless.

That being said, hopefully we can all simply agree to disagree and enjoy each others time in-game. I like meeting people and I like that people are so willing to help one another!! THAT is what makes a server great far and above content, events, etc!!

If I can help anyone in any way...Let me know in game!!

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Plutonium on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:12 pm

Pantyhose, you are a pretty obnoxiously self-righteous person and childish, to boot. ASSume? Really? Lol. K. Moving on.

I really liked enjoyed your perspective Vampriss (well, until you jumped on the victim band-wagon thinking this post was vilifying boxers, which it isn't). And that's a similar play style to the earlier boxers of the server. I, personally, am totally cool with that play style because you aren't doing what I explained in the post (and if you aren't doing that, then you aren't part of the problem, now are you?). I share your opinion of wanting this to be a good server, which is why I am constantly bringing up bugs and issues, and trying to have community discussions about things I see to be problems. What I am trying to tell you, Vampriss, is that before, people were WAY more willing to help each other and help was much more often needed, which created a better social atmosphere. All the boxing works counter to that overall, even if it hasn't been your experience.

You realize, Vampriss, the intention of this post was not about spawn-hogging or even loot-hogging, right? You may be referring to Pantyhose, who himself said, "why group when you can do it yourself and have all the loot." I have no idea why you extrapolated that, but what I was referring to is the overall notion that boxing HAS (I have seen the shift, so I know) made this server less social for the many aforementioned reasons above that the boxers responding to this seem to just not think are valid (despite having not played here before the shift).

On an end note, it is also absolutely ludicrous that we have people who deem it appropriate to attack another for merely sharing their opinions on something that they feel strongly about (Which are entirely validated given how long I have been playing on this server). Passive-aggressive is a yucktastic quality.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Vampriss on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:36 pm

Lighten up a bit Pluto dear...My reference to "loot hogging, etc" was simply an attempt at humor. Apologies if it offended.

Look...At the end of the day this is a game. A game I choose to PLAY between cleaning/cooking/taking care of kids/etc. I've been on the server in some form since the first few days, but that doesn't really give anyone any credibility. The server has changed since then and will continue to change I hope. As such, the importance of input will change.

The great news is that the server is not broken (except maybe PoEarth trials :p) and everyone seems to be having a blast. I'm all for keeping a watchful eye on dangerous trends, but if that becomes the focus over having fun...Then we all lose!! Seems like that's where you're standing. I say chill a little and let's see where it goes.

Also...I'm all for discussion, but this is not a discussion. It's turned into a debate and a meaningless one at that. I'm happy to discuss, but not gonna debate. I'm not mad or anything, just don't see the point.

Thank you for bringing the topic up. I hope there's been some kind of insight gained through all this that'll help form the server going forward.

Vampriss


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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Plutonium on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:06 pm

Humor can be rather difficult to interpret via text, so my apologies for misinterpreting. However, the fact remains that this was started as a means to discuss what I, personally, believed to be a problem. It is out of my control what other people turn it into. Trust me when I say, this is for the server, not myself. If people choose to get so butthurt (not you, Vampriss) and up in arms over people actually caring, then that is their prerogative. Regardless, Woses, John, I would enjoy your input on this matter. I don't care to hear any more unnecessary bashing on this post, so if anyone has any constructive opinions to add, awesome, please do. Amazingly enough, opinions are allowed to differ from my own.

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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by Sovereign on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:27 pm

Boxing is always a delicate situation, on Live and on EQEmu. I honestly don't mind if people box a group, to each their own. It's a solo server, now whether people solo with their one character, or do it themselves with a team is their own choice. To be perfectly honest, the boxing situation here is nothing out of hand at all. All of the boxers I have encountered that box full teams such as Pantyhose or Laww are incredibly helpful people. They allow others to join them, and I can personally attest to this.

Would I like to see more groups of real people and not just boxes? Of course, but even with the solo capacity of one character, not many people come out to ask for groups. It's a matter of approaching the people in my opinion whether it be to join them, or to ask them if you can take a spawn. It's only on this server that I have found every single player that boxes to be amicable.
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Re: Boxing Discussion?

Post by blurman2000 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:37 pm

It looks like so far, it's been a good community of people around the server.

I have yet to see someone hog and not share a zone yet either but there's no guarantee someone else might do so.

Hopefully Pluto, your concerns shouldn't be concerns "yet".

Shall we wait till it actually becomes a problem then address it?
Or take some action to "prevent" the problems from happening?

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